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    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007 edited
     
    This thread is a composition of all the pertinent information that has been accumulated by the people who take part on this forum who are salicylate sensitive. We have done much research on our own, after coming away from traditional doctors who had no answers for us, and have learned all that we could from the research that is available on the internet, and from each other and our own ongoing experiences with Salicylate Sensitivity. We have learned that eating a low sal diet is only the beginning of the battle for health and that other factors such as environmental toxins and hormones such as estrogen come into play. We would like to share them with you. We would also like to say that we are only average people, with no medical training, (but some common sense) and that these steps are the steps that have helped us and hope they will help you also if you are suffering from Salicylate Sensitivity.

    STEP 1: GET A THOROUGH PHYSICAL EXAMINATION. Many of the signs of ss are the same as other diseases and these should be ruled out before self-diagnosing SS.

    STEP 2: DETERMINE IF SALICYLATES ARE THE PROBLEM. Read the information under "Information" and "Food Guide" to find the symptoms of SS. You will also find a list of foods and products which are high in salicylates. If you determine that you have many of the symptoms and react to foods on the medium to high list and know you have a sensitivity to aspirin, then you should begin with eliminating salicylates from your personal products. The amount of salicylates found in personal products can be half the problem, and discontinuing use of those products could alleviate any nuisance symptoms you might be having. We have found that for some people, an abrupt drop in salicylate intake can cause a greater sensitivity to salicylates. The reason for this is unknown. In order to avoid a chance for increased sensitivity to salicylates, we have learned that it is best to eliminate salicylates slowly from your system, unless you have already been experiencing an acute sensitivity to salicylates in the form of anaphylactic episodes or other symptoms that would cause you to be hospitalized or bedridden.

    STEP 3: ELIMINATE ALL SALICYLATES FROM PERSONAL PRODUCTS: Read the labels on all personal products, (shampoos, lotions, shaving cream, etc.) and replace with no salicylate products. You should find a list of chemicals that contain salicylates under the "Information" section. Personal products can contribute greatly to the total salicylate intake, causing many symptoms. You may also want to eliminate any products containing benzoates, since they are the parent chemical of salicylate and so chemically similiar that the body my react to them in the same manner as salicylates.

    STEP 4: ELIMINATE FOODS HIGH IN SALICYLATES: After two weeks, If you are still experiencing symptoms after eliminating salicylates and benzoates from your personal products, you can begin to eliminate foods from the high list. If you experience some alleviation of your symptoms, then you can assume that salicylates are a problem for you, and after two weeks, you can also begin to eliminate the foods from the medium list. Eliminating foods slowly over a period of time could keep you from experiencing the hightened sensitivity to salicylates that some people have reported.

    STEP 5: BEGIN THE ELIMINATION DIET/CHALLENGE PHASE: Before you begin the elimination diet, please read this document written by Dr. Anne Swain that explains the elimination diet proceedures.
    http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/research/daareview.pdf
    After going on a low salicylate diet, you may still find that you have symptoms that are still lingering. Most of us have found that there is a high percentage of us that are sensitive to other chemicals in food such as amines, sulphites, and phenols. After you have determined that sals are an issue for you, you can begin the challenge phase to help you sort out which foods are causing your symptoms. The challenge phase of the diet consist of white rice, peas and filtered water. The rice and pea combination will make up a complete protein. Some sites suggest doing the challenge phase for two weeks, and if you can, that would be great to give your body a rest from all the sals. (I personally folded after 4 days), but after 3 days of rice and peas, you should begin to see some improvement in your symptoms. Sometime between 4 days and 2 weeks, (however long you can go with just the rice and peas) you can begin to add a vegetable or legume from the low sal column. Keep a detailed diary of the food you ate, the time, the way you prepared the food, and how you felt after you ate the food. It is also helpful to keep a record of chemicals and cleaning agents you came into contact with, any odors or scents that may have bothered you and the times when you began to feel any reactions. Wait a day before adding on another food from the low sal list to check for any reaction because sometimes the reaction will not show up until the next day. Continue in this manner, adding foods on one at a time to find out which foods make you react. Many times it is not only salicylates that we are sensitive to, but also other compounds such as phenols, amines and caffeine. If you do not see ANY IMPROVEMENT after 5 days, discontinue the challenge phase. You may be sensitive to other chemicals in the rice and peas and you will have to chose other foods to continue your challenge phase.

    STEP 6: ELIMINATE SOURCES OF ESTROGENS, PHYTOESTROGENS, XENOESTROGENS, AND ALL SYNTHETIC HORMONES: We have found that salicylate sensitivity can be triggered during times of fluctuating hormonal activity such as puberty, pregnancy, and menopause. Foods such as milk, cheese, and ice cream contain the hormone estradiol and can add to the hormonal instability. Xenoestrogens are man made chemicals that mimic estrogen in the body. Plastic items used for cooking and food storage such as plastic baggies, plastic bowls, cups, and containers can be sources of xenoestrogens especially after they have been heated in the microwave. Birth control pills and hormone replacement therapy drugs are also a source of estrogen. Meat is also a source of hormones, especially beef, and organic meat should be eaten, but can still be a source of hormones. Natural chemicals found in foods such as soy and yams called phytoestrogens can mimick estrogen, and should be avoided. For more information on xenoestrogens, read the thread on "Xenoestrogens Related to SS?".
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2007 edited
     
    STEP 7: FIND A GOOD SOURCE OF WATER: Finding a source of water which is low in toxins such as chlorine, fluoride, heavy metals, and pesticides is advisable for drinking and cooking and is prefered for use during the elimination/challenge phase. Tapwater is generally not considered to be suitable, unless adequately filtered or distilled. Carbon filters, which are the most common type of water filter, are generally not suitable unless you are confident that chlorine is the only toxin present in a significant concentration. For short-term use, options such as spring water and rainwater are cheaper than buying a reverse osmosis filter, for example. Also, toxins in water can be absorbed through the skin, and chlorine readily evaporates and is absorbed by the lungs. A very strict elimination diet therefore requires the use of good quality water for bathing, clothes washing, swimming, etc. BW


    STEP 8: FIND A GOOD PROBIOTIC SUPPLEMENT/ELIMINATE SUGAR AND SIMPLE CARBOHYDRATES: We have found that an imbalance of intestinal bacteria due to prior use of antibiotics and a diet too high in sugar seem to be related to ss. Research says that the good bacteria present in our intestines play a role in producing the sulfate needed to detox salicylates. When our diets are high in sugar and simple carbohydrates, yeast that is naturally present in our intestines feed on this and an overgrowth of yeast can occur, upsetting the intestinal balance. This can result in nutrient deficiencies that can trigger ss. Taking daily probiotic supplements containing L. acidophilus and B. bifidum can help bring your intestinal flora back into balance and is said to help strengthen the immune system. For more information on yeast, see the thread "The Yeast Connection".

    STEP 9: ADD VITAMIN AND MINERAL SUPPLEMENTS: After you have concluded that you have a salicylate sensitivity, and you have been on the elimination diet for over two weeks and are seeing improvements from lowering your sal intake, you can begin to add supplements to your diet. We have found that many of the symptoms of ss come from a lack of various vitamins and minerals and found that taking a multivitamin/multimineral supplement every day to every other day helps with symptoms. Many supplements come with fillers that contain sals, so add them on while watching for any reactions. Sometimes it takes a few tries before you find a supplement that agrees with you. For more information about which supplements to take see "Vitamins" and "Magnesium".

    STEP 10: ADD EPSOM SALTS: Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) contain magnesium and sulfate which many of us found help our symptoms. It is unknown why they help, but we are currently looking at several theories of why they would. You can take epsom salt foot baths or use epsom salt lotion. It is readily absorbed through the skin. The amount that works for each person varies, depending on the bodies needs, but you can start with 1 part salt to 2 part water for a foot bath. Epsom salts may or may not be effective for every person, but when they do work, they can allow you to up your sal intake and help you with your nuisance symptoms. For more information on espsom salts see "Magnesium".

    STEP 11: DECREASE OMEGA-6 INTAKE AND INCREASE OMEGA-3. We are currently investigating the relationship between ss and an imbalance of fatty acids. It is well known that Omega-6 fatty acids such as the saturated fats found in margarine can cause inflammation. We have found that lowering dairy and red meat and increasing foods that contain Omega-3 such as fish can be a key component of acquiring our optimal health status.

    STEP 12: MINIMIZE STRESS: Many of us have noticed that a time of high stress seemed to be a trigger for ss coming to the forefront. This is not surprising since stress erodes the immune system. Prayer, meditation, or just walking and talking with a friend help to lower stress levels. Post on the "Blow of Some Steam" thread. Get plenty of sleep and try not to stay up until all hours of the night. Studies have shown that estrogen levels can be influenced by light, even artificial light.

    So that is where we are right now, and we continue to learn from all sources and each other. Finding your way back to health will take some time. It took you time to get this way, and it will take time to reverse the process. We don't believe salicylate sensitivity is something you can be "cured" of. You will probably always have a sensitivity, but it CAN be brought under control and you CAN FEEL GOOD AGAIN. We wish you much success in your endeavor and hope you are feeling well soon!
    • CommentAuthorLeah
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     
    You are kidding!!! i didn't read all that by the doctors at Royal Prince Alfred would be very upset with you!!

    I agree with the first two. after that, there is a real elimination diet that was created by the team at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital Allergy Unit. It includes alot more foods than brown rice and salt. Also, this "elimination diet" doesn't include amines, preservatives, addtives etc, which we all know can cause reactions. I think even Beth discovered she was intolerant to amines.

    Unfortunatley, the RPAH elimination diet is not listed free on a website, you have to buy the booklet from Australia. Go to :http://www.cs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/ and click on 'elimination diet books'. i know it sucks that you have to buy them, but some of the most qualifed people on food intolerances wrote them, and they have to make a living too.

    sue dengates website is also really helpful http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info

    All the best,

    Leah.
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008 edited
     
    I guess you did not read the beginning of the statement. We are only stating the steps we followed that helped us. It's a beggining, and more than anyone could help me with when I was ill. Beth's site has been a FREE blessing to me and many others, some of which I would suppose could not "buy" information. As far as the amines, preservative, etc are concerned, that would be discovered if you followed the "elimination diet" wouldn't it. I think you have the wrong idea about the "elimination diet" it's not something that you go on forever. You're welcome to share what information you have gained from rpah. Maybe we can learn a little something from them. Or better yet, tell us how you went from illness to wellness! Maybe we can learn a little something from you!
  1.  
    Leah,

    First, I agree with Rita.

    Second, just brown rice and salt was my thing. Nobody on this site ever suggested that, at least to my knowledge. Beth's suggestion is brown rice, filtered water, and chicken or beef, I believe.

    I've looked at the RPAH website. For medical professionals, they seem like they're on the right track. Maybe I'll even get their book. But they weren't anywhere near the realm of my knowledge when I started this.

    For that matter, none of the health care folks I spoke to here in the States were very helpful, either. They just said things like, "Hives are very mysterious." And the things I heard from the "health food" stores and "alternative medicine" advocates aren't even worth mentioning. There are a number of very good, helpful sites on the web, but this one has really helped me the most.

    Thanks Beth (and everyone else). :D
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2008 edited
     
    Hi Leah. I studied the thesis by Anne Swain who was one of the head dieticians at the RPAH at the time it was written. At that time they could only hypothosize about what causes ss, but one of her hypothesis was a deficiency of the pst enzyme. The study was done specifically on salicylates, and she does point out that, "Those patients who showed no improvement after six weeks on the elimination diet were asked to return for review by the physician. In some cases further restriction of wheat and milk products was successful...." This points to the fact that estrogen/lactose and phenols can also come into play for some people. I've also looked at the outline of their elimination diet. Just like us, they suggest a time of low-sal to see if symptoms improve. Then they move on to food challenges while still eating a low sal diet. We have found that doing things that way causes more confusion than anything, and suggest otherwise. This will help a person better discover if they also have reactions to amines, dairy, caffeine or what have you. Here is the link to their elimination outline. It does not contain the food list, but if anyone is interested, they can look into it. And on the contrary, I think the doctors at RPAH would be VERY happy to find all this updated information on one site! http://www.cs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/default.htm
    • CommentAuthorWendy
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2008
     
    Hi Rita,
    I have been on the elimination diet now for a week. Brown rice, chicken, filtered water and I have pears too. I am feeling so much better today. I have more energy and although I had to take an anihistamine on Wednesday for hives, (?) physically and mentally feel so much brighter. The question I have is, because I really dislike chicken - is lamb allowed rather than chicken? I haven't eaten beef for years, but if necessary would switch to beef instead. Having eaten chicken for a few days I found that I could hardly manage to eat it and the smell on my hands from the preparation was starting to really get to me, even when I washed them four or five times. So for me preparation with gloves on was the answer, but thought if I could swop to lamb it would sort that one.
    So far haven't found the diet too bad and am determined to continue for two weeks, then add back one new thing at a time. Since I get hives the day after I have ingested sals, would you suggest a longer testing time for each new food? Cannot understand where the hives came from on Wednesday. The last antihistamine I had taken was the Friday before. Would it be that the sals in my body were still coming out? Or should I give up pears?
    Sorry, many more than just one question. It is such a comfort to have this forum. Thanks for all your help Rita and Beth.
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2008
     
    When doctors in the emergency room are faced with salicylate poisoning, they give charcoal to absorb the salicylates in the gut and they give glycine and baking soda to remove the salicylates present in the blood. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8999500 The glycine helps the liver prepare the salicylates for removal and the high urine pH (7 to 9) facilitates the removal of salicylates by the kidneys. In the above reference, they started with an initial dose of 8 grams of glycine followed by 4 grams every 4 hours.

    So, has anyone tried using charcoal or glycine and bicarbonates? I don't have salicylate sensitivity, so I'm not the one to try this. I just happened upon your website and thought to contribute a little. I'm usually found at the Candida forum at www.healthyawareness.com

    By the way, I don’t sell charcoal, but here is a very very inexpensive place to purchase a large can of charcoal powder. Charles Wilson, Distributor, Box 693, Leicester N.C. 28748 Phone (828) 622-3671

    Glycine is very cheap if you purchase it as a powder instead of as pills. Glycine tastes sweet, but it isn’t sugar. Most people should be able to tolerate the sweet taste of a teaspoon of glycine if mixed in a glass of water. Three grams of glycine before bedtime has been shown to improve non-REM sleep. Glycine may alter the mix of bacteria in the gut, so some precaution is warranted.
    • CommentAuthorTEDDY
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    Hi Polly

    Nice to meet you on the forum. Sounds very interesting and I had never heard of actual salicylate poisoning. I know in A & E they use charcoal for a lot of things but had never heard of this in relation to salicylates.

    I think this would be a dangerous thing for anyone on the forum to try and should only be done if necessary by experts in A & E or whatever the equivalent is in the US.

    Still an interesting topic though.

    Take care
    Teddy from Scotland
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2008
     
    I agree that one must always be cautious when trying new things. I also understand why anyone with salicylate sensitivity would be particularly wary because they will be sensitive to many different things.

    Asking your doctor about a supplement is always a very good place to start. However, even the experts don’t know everything. So do your own research. Read articles and seek out the experience of others in your same situation. Once you have decided to try a supplement, start with only a little and gradually work up to an amount that you find beneficial or that people think will make a difference. Note that this amount might not be what the manufacturer claims to be an appropriate amount. I find that manufacturers often under estimate how much should be used for two reasons:

    1. The product is very expensive and taking more would make the cost to the consumer prohibitive.
    2. They want to be particularly cautious, so that a sensitive person will not sue them.

    Of course, there are times when the manufacturers can be off in the other direction. They may over-estimate how much to use. Supplements like B6, carotene and bioflavonoids easily come to mind as things certain people should not be using in high doses.

    As for finding others who have tried glycine, you might want to visit one of the autism lists or forums. They give glycine to the autistic because it improves memory and learning. It also counters some of the effects of excess free serotonin. You might ask why they don’t just have the children eat jello since gelatin is about one-third glycine. Gelatin temporarily inhibits an enzyme called DPP IV. Those with environmental poisonings are often low on this enzyme and will react adversely to gelatin. If you aren’t sensitive to gelatin, you might just want to use this instead of glycine. Get the plain gelatin without all the flavorings and food colorings. It is best to eat it at the same time as you do your meat. I’ve read that a tablespoon of gelatin mixed into a hamburger patty is about right.

    As for charcoal, this can interfere with the absorption of nutrients. I have but one anecdotal experience to relate here. My husband employed a heaping teaspoon of charcoal in his coffee each morning for one year. He claims that he felt better. No obvious problem with nutrient loss in his case.
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2008
     
    Thanks Polly... good information...
    Just an addition -
    beware gelatine if you are sulphite sensitive.... (and many autistics and people with ss are)
    HUGS Lindy xxx
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2008
     
    I wonder if some of the salicylate sensitivity has to do with very low sulfate levels in the body. It appears that sodium salicylate will cause the body to lose its sulfate via the urine. (By the way, mercury also causes the kidneys to dump sulfates in the urine.) Do people find Epsom Salt baths helpful?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4026888

    de Vries BJ, van den Berg WB, van de Putte LB
    Salicylate-induced depletion of endogenous inorganic sulfate. Potential role in the suppression of sulfated glycosaminoglycan synthesis in murine articular cartilage.
    Arthritis Rheum. 1985 Aug;28(8):922-9.
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2008
     
    Hi Polly
    Thanks for the link.
    Interesting it is a Rhuematiod Arthritis one.. my husband has RA and I am currently also researching info about the causes of this.Food & chemical sensitivities/ seem to have a bearing on autoimmune diseases too.
    I have been twittering on about sulphates for while now... there definitely seems to be a link and my allergist confirmed it when I first went to him with a sulphite problem and he diagnosed my salicylate sensitivity ..Teddy also has sulphite problems.. ss and sulphite issues often come together.
    The puzzle is which comes first.. the sulphite (sulfite) sulphur/sulphate problem or the salicylate one..
    I am collecting quite a bit of info on this and a lot does seem to hinge on the inability to process sulphur to sulphate efficiently. The body either gets "stuck" as the sulphite stage (sulphur to sulphite to sulphate)as in my case as I get real toxic reactions to sulphites or the body cannot utilise the sulphate and loses it via the urine (in the same way that a diabetic can't process sugar well) Whether this is "caused" by a salicylate sensitivy or a genetic/enzyme cause (I suspect the genetic link as this seems to be a family problem for me and my grandsons Aspergers is likely to be linked)
    If you read back on some of the posts on this site we have talked about it....There is also quite a few posts here going way back about Epsom Salts...I have been tryingsoaking in them but have stopped for now due to stomach reactions.
    If you google PST (phenol-sulfur (sulphur) transferase) and its pathway you may find some interesting information.(often the US spelling sulfur sulfite sulfate gleans more links)
    There is a huge amount of information to be obtained from reading back on old posts here... It is very time consuming but worth the time.. I spent ages reading when I first came along...
    HUGS Lindy xxx
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2008 edited
     
    Sorry Wendy, I just noticed your post here. As far as I know, lamb should be ok. Most fresh, unprocessed meats are low sal with the exception of liver from any source. Did you break out in hives the day after you ate the pears? Sometimes we will still react to foods even if they are low sal. I can't eat pears. Try to add on the low sal veggies first, and leave the fruit for last. If you had pears and didn't react the first time, but had pears the next day, that could make you react. It is a build up in your system. Remember to keep your food diary, as this is important. Also, it's more likely that if you were only eating rice and meat, then the hives could have been caused by something other than what you ate, like your personal products, or even something strong that was inhaled. And even could have been set off by a good dose of anxiety at this point, or a combination of the three. I now pronounce you Sherlock Holmes. Let the investigation begin! And of course you will have your trusty Watson's at your side (the sal team) to help you crack the case.

    Hi Polly. Interesting that you have found your way onto this forum as you post on the Candida forum. We have found that the two are interconnected. I have tried the baking soda. I use it when I have a really bad episode and need immediate attention. It really works. It had the effect of clearing my head and bringing me back to my senses, as when I am having a really bad reaction, I feel like I'm on the brink of hysterics. Scarry! A must have for the sal defense cabinet.

    Lindy, right now I'm leaning toward, genetic susceptibility leads to yeast overgrowth, leads to salicylate sensitivity/sulphite sensitivity. I'm thinking the quality of our digestive juices allows for bacteria and fungi to proliferate when combined with diet and other factors. But I'm just thinking out loud.
    • CommentAuthorginny
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008 edited
     
    my doctor has no idea about sal sensitivity.. she just tested me for food allergies and did a RAST for sals. Came back with 'we can't test for sals with this test' so it looks like I'm on my own here. Nearest allergy clinic is at other end of country in Auckland. Just ordered the book from RPA.
    Hands are itching and have developed excema in reaction to a ring Ive been wearing for 5 years! Bleh.. must have got something caught under it that doesn't like me.
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2008
     
    Hi Ginny
    We are all "on our own" with regards to the medical profession... but not REALLY on our own as we have this forum!! :)
    I had the skin prick tests and RAST which were all negative. My hospital allergist was a little switched on and did diagnose Salicylate sensitivity from the information I gave him about the food I knew I reacted and my symptoms (I had not heard of it until I saw him) but the only help he could give was to prescribe singulair which I decided not to take due to the possible side effects..He gave me a list of foods to avoid but appeared to have no knowledge of why it happens and other than avoidance if there is anything else you can do.
    Rita
    Could be the genetic susceptibility to Sals intolerance/poor processing of Phenols/enzyme disfunction is the main issue which is what then leads to the gut environment becoming susceptible to yeast overgrowth and leaky gut under certain circumstances such as high sals intake/painkillers/antibitotics/stress which then leads to the further intolerance/sensitivities we all seem to have ..
    I have bought some science books and have been doing some reading up on genetics (aaargh) and it only takes one of the 70,000 genes we have to be faulty to cause an enzyme to disfunction which then leads to a whole cascade of other problems...
    HUGS Lindy xx
    • CommentAuthorTEDDY
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2008
     
    Hi Ginny

    Nice to welcome you to the forum. Like Lindy says we have to become our own expert where sals are concerned. Hope you find lots of information to help you on the forum and even just for someone to talk to about it as we all understand each other.

    Yuk genetics - good luck on reading that glad my study days are over [professional wise anyhow]. No wonder we cant get to the actual root of a lot of issues if there are 70,000 geners and only taking one of them to develop a fault. Its a bit like a car having an MOT I suppose - only much worse!!!!!

    Keep up with the studies Lindy.

    p.s. Lindy a question for you

    My allergist just emailed me today about a reaction I had in my GP surgery due to a new non latex blood cuff monitor they got for me. I reacted badly and my allergist suggested that I may also be reacting to the other side of latex e.g. reacting to thiurams, carbamates, mercapto mix etc etc - any thoughts and do any of them appear in plastics of any sort as I wonder why I am having such severe reactions to the plate of teeth they have made for me. Tried them in for two hours and have had 4 days of severe facial pain back again. They have made these teeth and plate from some sort of plastic form as I have the nickel allergy. Appears to me this plate is causing me just as much problems as the nickel one did and wonder if any of those three ingredients are anything to do with plastic form.

    Take care
    Teddy x
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2008
     
    Hi Teddy..
    Thiurams are sulphur containing compounds which would explain the reaction you got from the latex free cuff if it was made of a form of rubber containing thiurams... ...even tho it wasn't latex...
    below is an excerpt about thiruams:
    (I don't know about the other two..carbamates, mercapto mix... but dental plates seem to be made of an acrylic compound best ask your dentist what your plate is made from and what it contains.....
    also do you use resin to hold the plate in place? This can also contain sulphur..
    Here is the copied thiurams info:
    What are thiurams?

    Natural rubber deteriorates rapidly. When sulphur is added to rubber and it is heated, the life of rubber is prolonged and other properties are improved. This process is known as 'vulcanisation', in memory of Vulvan, the Roman god of fire and smiths.

    Thiurams are sulphur containing compounds which speed up vulcanisation, i.e. they are 'accelerators'.

    The following chemicals are thiurams:

    TMTD Tetramethylthiuram disulphide
    TETD Tetraethylthiuram disulphide
    TMTM Tetramethylthiuram monosulphide
    PTD Dipentamethylenethiuram disulphide

    WHAT ARE THIURAMS IN?

    Rubber gloves, boots
    Bathing caps
    Rubber or elastic in underclothes, nylon stocking tops
    Suspenders, trouser waistbands, antiperspirant shields
    Rubber pillow, cushion, sponge and powder puff
    Finger stalls, contraceptive sheaths, balloons
    Rubber pipes, rubber grips, rubber bands, face masks, wet suits
    Foam-backed carpets
    Disinfectants for seeds and animal feed
    Fungicides, examples include Thiuram and Tetmosol
    Germicides
    Insecticides
    Pesticides
    Animal repellents
    Bacteriostat in soap [Lifebuoy]
    Nobecutane spray
    Adhesives [neoprone]
    Crepe soles [neoprone]
    Latex adhesives
    Some lubricating oils

    HOW CAN I PREVENT FURTHER PROBLEMS?

    1. Try to avoid possible sources of contact and avoid them.
    2. You must avoid taking DISULFIRAM [Antabuse] as this is a thiuram [TETD
    HUGS Lindy xx
    • CommentAuthorTEDDY
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2008
     
    Thanks Lindy

    Have been looking on internet to see what they all are and it looks like just more to avoid along with the latex anyhow. I just wondered if there was any connection to plastics e.g. the teeth but like you say best to ask dental consultant when I go back in a few weeks. From what you have put here and thanks for that Lindy and what I have discovered I dont see a link to perhaps what the tooth would be made of.

    Have never heard of Disulfiram antabuse so hope I havent come into contact with it. Hey ho just more to steer clear of!
    Thanks again Lindy
    Take care
    Teddy x
    • CommentAuthorRadioBabe
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2008
     
    Hello! I'll give my Reader's Digest version of my story... I developed an arthritis/Fibromyalgia-like condition for a year. I had an allergic reaction to a prescription NSAID and now am allergic to Ibuprofen, which I've taken for 20+ years. The first symptom of my NSAID allergy was increasing pain and immobility in my legs! Then came the oral hives. Since I have an existing Autoimmune Disorder, my doc sent me to a Rheumatologist (quack) who saw the high inflammation levels on my lab work, dismissed them, and said I have Fibromyalgia (quack!).

    I also have sudden food allergies and get anaphylaxis from some, severe abdominal cramps and runs from others. When I had the first food reaction, just after the new NSAID allergy, I searched online and discovered the Salicylate connection between NSAIDs and foods. I immediately started eating a very low Salicylate diet and when I saw my doc and told him I had a theory - that I had a mild allergy to NSAIDs for the past year and as my overall muscle pain increased, I took more Ibuprofen, and my pain increased, so I took more... and that I now have a full blown allergy which has also caused a Salicylate sensitivity to foods. HE AGREED WITH ME! I was stunned.

    He sent me to an Allergist and that's where my allergies to Tree Nuts, Fish, and Mustard (not just the yellow stuff in the squeeze bottle, either... mustard flour can be found in mayonaisse, salad dressings, bread, as can mustard seed... even in ketchup) were diagnosed. Since I had been eating low-Sal, I managed to avoid those unknown allergens (I don't eat fish, anyway) until I was diagnosed, so thank GOD I did that for myself.

    I have searched and searched online to see if there's a connection between overuse of Ibuprofen and Salicylate sensitivity AND food allergies. I've been taking way too many Ibuprofen for too many years. I never took just two. I always took four... for headaches, for girly cramps, for sore throats... then for the pain I developed in my muscles and joints. I was taking 8-16 200mg tablets daily. Not good.

    Has anyone here read anything to suggest that Ibuprofen abuse/overuse can lead to food allergies and Salicylate sensitivity? Thank you so much.
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2008
     
    Hi Radiobabe
    Welcome!
    My understanding from my studies and research is that overuse of ibuprofen/nsaids damages the lining of the stomach/intestines which make them more permeable and "leaky". Once the intestines become "leaky" (leaky gut) then larger molecules of undigested food can pass through the intestine walls directly into the bloodstream. The body then sees these as "invaders" much like viruses and makes antibodies against the foods. The way to "cure" these food allergies/sensitivities is to heal the gut with probiotics and digestive enzymes (I also use L glutamine) and total avoidance of any foods which upset you for at least 4 months.
    Having said that we have mostly reached the conclusion here that salicylate sensitivity (and the sulphite problem and other chemical problems some of us have) appear to be an "inborn" genetic issue causing lack of certain enzymes which help the body/liver to process certain food chemical/toxins.There seems to be a "trigger" which worsens the problems ..mine was in fact extensive dental treatment with injections containg sulphites, antibiotics and painkillers last year. I realise I have always had a mild version of the problems I have but I am convinced the painkillers increased my gut permeability with possible candida yeast problems.
    HUGS Lindy xx
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2008
     
    Radiobabe
    Here is a good link:
    http://heartspring.net/leaky_gut_syndrome_treatments.html
    • CommentAuthorTEDDY
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2008
     
    Hi Radiobabe

    Just to say hi and welcome to Beth's forum. I see Lindy has already given you great advice.

    Nice to meet you. Take care
    Teddy x
    • CommentAuthorRadioBabe
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2008
     
    Lindy, thank you for confirming my theory! That link was great and also confirmed my NSAID suspicions. From what I've been reading, most doctors don't believe the "leaky gut" thing. It sounds like we have to deal with it, on our own. I'll have to make a trip to the local whole/health foods store, to do the probiotics treatment.

    Thank you for your warm welcome, Teddy. Nice to "meet" you, too!

    Joyce (aka 'RadioBabe')
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2008
     
    Hi,
    Just to confirm what Lindy has said, our salycilate sensitivities are not allergies, and the immune system is not involved. On the other hand, if you have true allergies (these can be seen through blood tests), as well as sal sensitivity, that sort of confirms the leaky gut theory associated with ibuprofen.
    There are scientific studies available:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10099814
    http://www.jpgn.org/pt/re/jpgn/abstract.00005176-199908000-00014.htm;jsessionid=JLJVPXVQKGFbv35dPNFT4bXTpGQjbvvPlTZLwm2MvTSmyCPgnBnH!-442877515!181195628!8091!-1
    But in healthy subjects, ibuprofen has no effect:
    http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/47/4/527

    There seems to be a suggestion that an underlying condition, linked to ibuprofen, leads to intestinal permeability. (Such as Crohn's disease, celiac disease, and others). Like us sal sensitive folk, it's not the drug, but something in our physiology that makes us react.
    • CommentAuthorGemstone
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2008
     
    Hrm I'm not sure whether I have an allergy or a sensitivity but I do get a thing called "pseudo-anaphalaxis" which is also deadly apparently.

    I tend not to use the word sensitivity cause people think that makes like lactose intolerant and I just get an upset tummy, rather than the hardcore reaction I do get.

    Thanks Rita for the advice, interesting about the epson salts, I love them and this is an excuse to have more long soaks! Well when the drought water restrictions here in Aus allow, of course.

    It is so tricky as there isn't alot of info out there, and I went on a wild medical goose chase for ages before knowing about salicylates, and then I had to stumble along. I wish the western medical system kind of, you know.... worked. I guess it does for some things, but unfortunately not so much for my things. No one ever thought about diet being a problem.

    Heres my steps, not as good as Ritas, but anyway:

    1. get really sick and have no clue whats wrong, have a mild freakout about it. Naturally.

    2. Go to doctors and go through lots and lots of weird tests, my fave was being hooked up like a robot to a machine for a day while I was at home, I renamed myself Robo-Gem!
    While going through the medical gambit, have patience and don't put all your trust in one doctor, they all will push their own specialities onto you because thats what they know, you know? Also take a paper and pen and write down what they say, cause it's hard to remember.

    3. Start a Wellness diary: keep a diary of what tests you have had and at what hospital, also start recording what you eat each day, how much you excersise, how much heroin you do... hang on... But seriously the benefits are:
    you keep track of whats going on, cause when you are sick you have no clue and forget things easy.
    you keep track of what you are doing, very helpful esp in regards to possible allergy
    you see how little exercise or how much KFC you are eating, and shame yourself into being more healthy.

    4. If the western medical field tells you nothing, but that you are crazy and making up the very real symptoms etc, then go to alternative medicines e.g. naturopath, but you have to find a good one. Go in perhaps a little skeptical, but open. Hell, if someone said I had to have a ritual psychic aura cleansing I would have given it a go, just in case it works. As with doctors, don't put all your faith in one practitioner, but do listen and give what they say a go. Ultimately it is your health, you know what your body feels like.

    5. Hopefully by now you have some leads, follow them through, with regards to salicylates, do the elimination diet...

    6. The Elimination Diet: Or how come I'm not allowed to eat anymore???
    Find out what foods you can eat, find out what you can't eat.
    Look at the list and have a bit of a breakdown. Perhaps stamp your feet or slam doors dramatically, fall to the floor wailing saying "What is the point in eating anymore? what is the point in being alive? Woe is me!"
    Basically make the people you live with really annoyed because all of a sudden you are cooking bland meals instead of spicy tasty curries etc.

    7. Get used to it, stick with the diet, even when after 2 days you have another reaction. Eventually stop being so gloomy and look at the recipes online here, and hunt through fave recipe books and think of what you can substitute... Pesto, I love pesto! Wait no basil... ok parsley!, Hrm okay so I will use a lime instead of a lemon no problem! Hrmm.... sunflower oil instead of olive thats okay!.... urgh what friggin nuts can I use damnit! This doesn't taste like the pesto I know and love! .... Actually it's pretty good.

    8. Figure out your life and how it has to be now, accept that resteraunt outings are probably over, go on picnics instead, way more romantic/family fun anyway. Get your friends to stop applying perfume right next to you. Start to get used to bringing spare food with you whenever you travel, it's all about perception. If you treat it and view it as an huge inconvenience then it will upset the people around you. If you act all breezy about it, and say "no i love to cook, seriously dont worry about it!" when they freak out about you cooking at their house they will feel more comfortable, and you won't get ill- bonus!

    I know its so hard, way harder than we wish our lives were, but hey it builds strength and character, and eventually you will feel healthyish again, at least enough to get out and about and live your life.
    • CommentAuthorednashedna
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2008
     
    I did laugh at the elimination diet bit! Thank you for bringing a smile to my face!

    Love,

    Judithxx
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2008
     
    Sounds like a really sensible plan, Gemstone.

    I also tell people I have allergies rather than intolerance for the same reason. People are careful with allergies because of the scare stories that newspapers print. People just don't have a clue about intolerances.

    Tx
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2008 edited
     
    Well Gemstone, you really do live up to your name. You really are a gem if you could find the lemon lining on the cloud of salicylate sensitivity. Only your sal sisters could have such a laugh with you concerning our condition, and I did laugh, but I do have some more good news for you. It's been about 3 years since my ss flared up, and I thought my days of traveling the world I love and eating out at restaurants were over too. But, I'm just back from wandering the Earth, and I've been able to enjoy eating out at the restaurants once again, of course being wise about my food choices. I'm so very thankful. So I believe that there can be a healing of ss, at least to the point were we can eat healthily, and even unhealthily on occasions, as after my trip, I enjoyed my first Big Mac and fries after a three year McDonald's famine without any reaction. I did take half an anti-histamine to make sure I did not go into anaphalactoid shock, though, and everything was fine. So see, stay on track and allow the body that God gave you to miraculously heal itself, and you'll find yourself being able to enjoy the foods you thought were gone once again. Rita
    • CommentAuthorednashedna
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2008
     
    :)

    You give us all hope!

    Love,

    Judithxxx
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2008
     
    Rita. I'm so inspired. Can you sum up everything you've done to get your body to heal? Vitamins /omega 3s, avoiding sals, sulphites????
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2008 edited
     
    Tee, ya. I followed the steps outlined at the top of this thread. As I reread it, I found one of the most important things was left out. Finding a good probiotic. This seems to be one of the keys to the healing process as many on this forum would vouch for, including myself. I will have to update that info. What it all boils down to is starving off the yeast by halting the foods that cause them to grow (simple sugars and fructose). Then repopulating the intestines with the beneficial bacteria. This alone can take years, depending on how good you are at staying away from sugar and keeping on your diet. Staying away from sals or anything which you personally find is causing you reactions (mostly dairy, wheat, sulphites or phenols) will allow your body ( perhaps the liver, the stomach lining, or the intestines themselves time to heal. I did try the fish oils but found they were having both positive and negative effect on me, so I stopped taking them, but still plan to try other brands to see if that helps. Also, I take a multi-vitamin every three days or so, as If I take them more often, I react to the fillers, but I still find that they are necessary for me and help with my energy levels. Magnesium is a must and I take 500 mgs daily to help control my moods and arthritis, and inflammation. I know I will always be and have always been ss, but every day I continue to find myself more and more tolerant and able to eat more and more of the foods that I love, while remembering not to fall back into my old ways which put me in this mess. SUGAR!
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2008
     
    Ooooops. Oh dear. My favourite. Deep down, I knew my sugar consumption was doing me no good. While I haven't been able to eat so many other things, it has been my comfort. Now I know I have to face the beast, and give it up. I'm such a sugar-holic.

    I do everything else, probiotic, omega 3s (not fish oil, too scary), vitamins. I'll get some epsom salts when I go to the UK.

    But sugar/ flora balance works on the leaky gut theory, doesn't it? It doesn't actually affect our basic ability to metabolise harmful chemicals, or do you know something else?

    Thanks, RIta
    T x
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2008
     
    Hi Tee. I think this should answer your question very well. You can also do some Googling on "the dangers of sugar"
    http://www.ghchealth.com/refined-sugar-the-sweetest-poison-of-all.html
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2008
     
    Thanks Rita!!

    T x
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2008 edited
     
    At this website, someone claims that she used to have salicylate sensitivity, and she thinks it cleared up by using vitamin K. http://www.ctds.info/health_links.html#salicylates She speculates that it might have something to do with salicylates blocking the action of vitamin K.

    I also found something else interesting. Feingold's diet avoids both salicylates and phenolics because these interfere or put a strain on the PST enzymes. It seems that vitamin K can have the opposite effect on PST. Vitamin K enhances the PST enzyme in the brain. [1] Although, I've not found any reference to vitamin K helping the PST enzymes in the liver, it seems plausible that it does.

    If you are thinking about trying a supplement of vitamin K, here are a few things to consider. Some of vitamin K's beneficial properties don't appear at very low levels. So, a fair amount would need to be taken. Here is an article that talks about the amount needed.
    http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james59.htm Of course, if you are on the prescription blood thinner coumadin, you don't want to be taking vitamin K. You will have to get off of that. In that article, the doctor makes a good case for getting off of coumadin and using nattokinase or lubrokinase instead.

    Since vitamin D activates vitamin K, you would probably need both vitamins D and K. However, all your fat soluble vitamins need to be in balance. Eg, too much A will deplete vitamin D. Too much vitamin A, E or D will deplete or sometimes interfere with vitamin K. So, don't overdo these other fat soluble vitamins if you are trying to bring up your vitamin K levels. If you have Candida / dysbiosis, you are more likely than most to have a deficiency of vitamin K. The proper intestinal bacteria might not be available to convert the plant source K1 into K2.

    1. Sundaram, K S, and Lev, M, “Vitamin K and phosphate mediated enhancement of brain sulfotransferase activity.” Author:: Citation: Biochem-Biophys-Res-Commun. 1990 Jun 29; 169(3): 927-32 http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=298382

    2. Harris RM, Hawker RJ, Langman MJ, Singh S, Waring RH, “Inhibition of phenolsulphotransferase by salicylic acid: a possible mechanism by which aspirin may reduce carcinogenesis,” Gut 1998 Feb;42(2):272-5,

    3. http://www.feingold.org/Research/pst.html
    • CommentAuthorednashedna
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2008
     
    MIght sound like a silly question but would sunlight therefore help ss? Maybe that is why we all feel better on holiday? Because we all go outside more? If vit D activates vit K which helps ss then it follows that being outdoors helps ss? Might that also be why sunlight is so good for us in so many ways? My daughter was not itchy at all whilst camping...

    And does a lightbox supply the same effect?

    Jx
    • CommentAuthorRita
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2008
     
    Vitamin K is definitly a main player for me, since I have bleeding issues. Just recently, as I have been extremely busy planning for a family party, I have not had time to make my salads. I also stopped taking my vitamin, since they changed the formula. Well, I got this pinprick rash on both of my wrists. It was thrombocytopenia which runs in my family. Also, my nose kept bleeding and so did my gums. I chocked up the nose bleed to this cold I have. And since I stopped taking magnesium, my pulsitile tinnitus has greatly improved. I knew my blood was getting thin after the wrist rash, so I took an old multi-vitamin with K and ate two hearts of romain. The bleeding has stopped. As far as vitamin k curing ss, hmmm. Anything is worth a try! I'll look for some supplements, but I don't think I ever saw any vitamin k by itself. I think the pulsitile tinnitus might have come from the thinning of my blood and my blood vessels contracting to try to increase the clotting.

    Being outdoors more is good period!
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
     
    Jx, I think you are right. There is a possibility that it is the vitamin D from sunlight that is helping. Dr. Mercola has several articles on vitamin D that you might want to look at. His latest is at http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/12/16/my-one-hour-vitamin-d-lecture-to-clear-up-all-your-confusion-on-this-vital-nutrient.aspx It is about an hour long video. Here is a bit of a summary. It says that if you don't live near the equator, and especially if you have an indoor job, then you probably don't have enough vitamin D. If you purchase a supplement, get vitamin D3 not D2. He also said that if you aren't getting any sun, then you may need a supplement of about 3,000 IU per 100 pounds of body weight, which works out to about 5,000 IU for an average adult. However, getting your vitamin D from the sun is better than from a supplement because you won't overdose. In general, Dr. Mercola doesn't like the idea of using cod liver oil because the proportion of vitamin A to vitamin D isn't right. There is too much vitamin A compared to vitamin D.

    If you use supplements, then get your blood tested a couple of months after you start supplementing, to make sure you aren't getting too much vitamin D. Presently, Lab Corp is to be preferred over Quest for testing. There is also a blood spot test you can order yourself. He didn't say which lab offered the blood spot test, but here is one. www.zrtlab.com/Page.aspx?hid=1821 Dr. Mercola didn't mention the danger of getting too much vitamin D if your vitamin K levels were low. I think he missed that precaution.

    No. A full spectrum light box isn't going to be much help with the vitamin D. However, Sperti makes a vitamin D light box. Call and ask them which one to get. It is a bit confusing because they have a full spectrum light box listed under their vitamin D boxes, but they say you aren't going to get much vitamin D from that unit. The other option is the more expensive tanning beds like Dr. Mercola sells.

    There are places to purchase a vitamin K supplement. Some supplements have very little vitamin K in them. However, some forms of vitamin K are better absorbed than others. The article that I mentioned previously had information in it about Pure Encapsulation's Synergy K product. That is the only product that I've seen so far with all the forms of vitamin K in it. Also the dose is such that one capsule per day should be sufficient. The product is available all over the internet. However, the best price I've found so far is at Willner's Chemists. ( If you are ever having trouble finding anything, Willner's Chemists will probably have it.)
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
     
    I forgot to mention this. The article on vitamin K, by Dr. Howenstine, said that low levels of vitamin K might be enough to keep you from bleeding, but they won't be high enough to help with many of the other functions of vitamin K. I think this means that it may be worthwhile to experiment with one pill of Synergy K per day. See if it helps. Your daily salads might not be doing the trick, especially if you have dysbiosis / Candida. or a genetic abnormality.

    www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james59.htm
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
     
    Both vitamin D and vitamin K are fat soluble vitamins - excesses are not passed out of the body quickly in the urine and therefore excess intakes are potentially toxic.
    Anyone considering taking supplements of vitamins A,D,E,K which are over the recommended daily allowance (RDA) should consult a Nutritional Adviser or have a blood test to establish if they are deficient in any vitamins.
    Vitamins B & C are water soluble so excess intakes are easily excreted by the body.
    Love Lindy xx
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
     
    The body only stores about an 8 day supply of vitamin K. So, it needs to be replenished on a regular basis. Synthetic vitamin K can be toxic, however, not natural vitamin K. Here is an excerpt from an article found at the Linus Pauling Institute. http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminK/

    Toxicity

    Although allergic reaction is possible, there is no known toxicity associated with high doses of the phylloquinone (vitamin K1) or menaquinone (vitamin K2) forms of vitamin K (22). The same is not true for synthetic menadione (vitamin K3) and its derivatives. ........ No tolerable upper level (UL) of intake has been established for vitamin K (22).
    • CommentAuthorednashedna
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
     
    Blimey - you lot don't half know a lot! I could tell you a lot about how to play a violin but sadly it is not relevant here. So I shall just listen and learn.

    Definitely think more outdoorsiness can only help.

    Long walks here we come...!

    Jxxxx
    • CommentAuthorlindyd
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2008
     
    We are all learning all of the time Judith :)
    I only know what I have been taught through my Nutritional Therapy and Nutritionist studying.. however as with any learning there are always other "schools" of thought. For instance my first course was at a college where they taught "conventional" nutrition and my second was an online distance learning course where they taught "complementary" nutrition..the two do not always agree :)
    My teaching for both courses was that fat soluble vitamins should be taken in moderation only whether they are natural or synthetic as the body cannot excrete them quickly.. but I understand and respect that other schools of thought may have different viewpoints.
    My view is that vitamins/minerals should always come from foods and natural sources where possible and large amounts should not be taken singly... You don't find foods in nature which only supply large amounts of one vitamin/mineral.. each food contains a combination of nutrients which often work together...
    Regretably the people who recommend large amounts of vitamins/minerals are often linked to companies who sell them :)
    Having said this I do take supplements up to the RDA myself...it is not always possible if you are on an enforced restricted diet to eat the correct balance of nutrients...although I would much rather eat a balanced diet :(
    The joy of these forums is that we all bring different viewpoints and information and learning :)
    I have learnt a lot from others here..and everyones contribution is
    helpful..
    By the way I can't play the violin Judith.. I envy you.. I only learned to play the recorder at school.. I did try the guitar once but my fingers are too short and stubby :)
    HUGS Lindy xx
    • CommentAuthorPolly
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2008 edited
     
    One of my first reactions to the idea of taking a vitamin K supplement was the same as yours, lindyd. I was worried that this fat soluble vitamin could build up in the body and become toxic. However, apparently, vitamin K doesn't work that way. Yet, I'm still somewhat wary, and so I think nor more than one pill per day of this Synergy K product should be tried. Also, I feel that something like nattokinase or lumbrokinase should be employed as well if a person is ill. This is just added insurance that blood clots aren't going to form.People who aren't in the best of health are more likely to form blood clots. Taurine and magnesium would also help prevent blood clot formation.

    If you want to use food as your source of vitamin K, then butter (K2 MK-4) and natto (K2 MK-7)are among the best sources. Natto contains both vitamin K2 MK-7 and nattokinase. It doesn't taste that great, and it took a while before I learned to tolerate it. I didn't care that much for the natto in the grocery store, so I was making a trip to a Japanese sushi bar each day to get fresh natto mixed with what tasted like a bit like onions. Later, I tried NattoSpes supplements and got as good or better results with much less trouble. I was told by an expert that there was vitamin K in the NattoSpes product, but he didn't tell me how much, and it doesn't say anything on the label about the vitamin K content. (I was eating the natto to improve my bone health and to improve blood flow. The main thing I noticed was that some lumps under my skin were disappearing while consuming it.)

    I think one should also shore up their vitamins A, E, and D in order to get the best response from the added vitamin K. Using just food or herbs to do this would be nice. However, my personal experience tells me that this might not be enough. I wasn't able to get rid of my menorrhagia until I took supplements of A and E. There are situations where the body isn't working perfectly, and more than just food is required to pull oneself out of a tailspin.

    Since I'm talking about using more than the RDA of vitamins to restore function, then it becomes more difficult to know which vitamins to start with, and how much to use. Since excess A, E, or D deplete or interfere with K, it seems that until more information becomes available, it is best to start with taking more vitamin K before trying a lot of these others. Since we know that too much A will deplete D, and too much D will deplete A, it seems these fat soluble vitamins are pretty closely related. I also know that if you don't have enough vitamin E, then your body loses vitamin A. So vitamin E is important here too. Seems they are all closely interrelated and one can never know all of the relationships. One just needs to be as informed as possible and to watch how your body reacts, keeping in mind balance, long term and short term effects.

    One more thing I ran across. Calcium can lower your vitamin K.
  2.  
    Hello all! I am new to the community as I have been diagnosed with the aspirin triad allergy, Samter's. I am to avoid all NSAIDS, which I really don't mind because I don't care for them. I am wondering how deep a salicylate sensitivity runs, can one get by on just avoiding the NSAIDS or are there similar substances lurking in common vitamins and other treatments as well as food. I have an extremely hard time breathing after just taking a baby aspirin.
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2008
     
    Mark, you should have a good look at the information pages of this site. There are sals (salicylates) lurking everywhere, in additives, creams, cleansers, perfumes as well as many common foods. You may also be sensitive to other chemicals such as sulphites, amines, MSG. It all depends on how much your body can detox.

    Good luck
  3.  
    Thanks for the info, Teefee. Did you get checked by an allergist? and where did you find a good one?
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeDec 26th 2008
     
    Hi Mark,
    Yes, I've been checked by two immunologists as well as regular doctors. I've done all the tests, but there is no test for salicylate intolerance.

    Tx
    • CommentAuthorTeefee61
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2008
     
    All this vitamin research is fascinating! Thanks, Polly and Lindy! I've been taking centrum, on the basis that the vitamins are in the right doses, but are they right for me??

    By the way, did you see this article on the BBC today? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7796073.stm
    It's about the healing effects of vitamin B1 on the liver (compromised in diabetics). As "our" sal-metabolizing enzymes are produced in the liver, I wondered whether this may help us?

    Lindy, I didn't know you had studied nutrition. To what level? Of course I realised you were a mine of information, but perhaps we can mine you for more?!

    Tx